Gender stuff

Discussion in 'Derailed Discussions' started by Jaded, Aug 6, 2014.

  1. sunsetblow TUFF GHOST Contributor

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    Not sure if you're asking me but as far as I've heard from many transgender or intersex folks, it's not malleable like that. Many simply feel that they have been born in a non-matching body. So there's as much "Oh today I feel like a dude" and "now I feel like a chick" as there is for a cis-gender person (that is, people whose body and gender identity match).

    As for gender fluid/non-conforming folks, I think it's easier to think about those gender identities not as constantly flowing between male and female but as breaking that binary and feeling at ease in a space in between. There exists some confusion over this because of the term "gender fluid" but my understanding is that the word fluid in that term is used specifically to refer to a fluctuation within the bounds of male and female. So one can possess more conventionally "masculine" characteristics and still retain some "feminine" characteristics or reverse those ratios or anything in between.

    The thought of using different genders to their advantage is usually a highly repugnant idea to most trans folk due to the likely excruciating mental confusion and angst that they had to suffer to inhabit their own gender in the first place, making instances statistically insignificant. (This statement being more aimed at cis-gender people who worry about trans folk using their bathrooms/change rooms, etc.)

    A wider umbrella term is "genderqueer," which helps to coral most of these terms together. And, of course, as with most things in life, but especially with gender and sexuality, there is no true consensus within the genderqueer community.
     
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  2. Eetha Back, with more sparkles than ever! Contributor

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    Mmm I have at least one friend who identifies as genderfluid and has "male" days and "female" days like Jaded is describing.
     
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  3. sunsetblow TUFF GHOST Contributor

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    As I said, "but especially with gender and sexuality, there is no true consensus within the genderqueer community."

    I would argue that the majority of genderqueer folk would describe their identity as I did in my last post.
     
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  4. Eetha Back, with more sparkles than ever! Contributor

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    Oh, for sure, I wasn't going to argue that. I was just providing some anecdotal evidence for it being at least a little common! Curious though, I wonder what researchers (ones that are friendly with the idea of gender non-conformity at least) would prefer these individuals to do.
     
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  5. clickhappier ★★Ⰼ₳ՖŦξᚱ⌚ Contributor

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    I hesitate to tread on controversial grounds, but I would suggest if someone with any variety of genderqueer identity were to want to get into answering surveys on a regular basis, most of which often stick to the traditional binary gender/sex options in the demographic questions, they should try to settle on one answer to use consistently for that question on all surveys, even if their feelings about the answers fluctuate from one point in time to another. Some MTurk researchers have been known to compare turkers' answers to demographic questions between surveys posted by the same requester at different times, and even surveys posted by different requesters who agreed to compare results, and they look at changes in the same turker-ID's answers to supposedly-unchanging demographic questions as indications of cheating/BSing/carelessness. Surveys that provide a wider range of answer choices for the gender/sex question, and/or focusing in-depth on gender non-conformity issues, would be exceptions to sticking to the one answer.

    PS: Of interest to this thread, the prevalence of physical conditions in which even the biological lines are blurred/inapplicable: http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency
     
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  6. Jaded Veteran Member Member

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    So most likely the few people I've seen say "Gender is a construct, sometimes I'm a girl and take girl surveys, sometimes I'm a guy and take guy surveys" are just people cashing in on something they (probably) don't really experience.

    Thanks for the answers, I was just curious. And I was asking anyone that was willing to answer, not you specifically. I like seeing answers.
     
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  7. Castor MTG Elite Contributor

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    I never feel girly but have boobs and can carry a baby in my oven so I answer female surveys :ag: They get the most "unfemale" answers they've probably ever seen from me but lol it is what it is.

    The female only studies are always horribly sexist anyway. Can't say if the male ones are just as bad since I've never taken one. The female ones are always about shopping or assessing how shallow, jealous and insecure you are around other girls. It makes me think they were written in the 1950's and only recently found their way onto the internet. Even the ones about career goals are 50% wondering if you're jealous of what your female coworkers are wearing. They make me laugh and cringe at the same time.

    Sorry girl only surveys but some of us aren't horribly insecure or working just to chat with other girls :ap: My career is so much more important than what my coworkers are wearing. I'm guessing they were wearing clothes. Hopefully someone would have told me if they were all nude.

    But again that's the problem with labels. Instead of just asking the same questions of the entire human working population they segregate it and make girl friendly or boy friendly surveys that teach us nothing.
     
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  8. clickhappier ★★Ⰼ₳ՖŦξᚱ⌚ Contributor

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    I happened to come across a post from 'eeka' a couple years ago in a public TN thread that I thought did a good job of explaining how requesters ought to think about phrasing such questions if they want to clarify what they're asking for:

    " I think that like other people said earlier, it's one thing to change your gender or sexuality if you know in your heart that you identify only as male and only as straight, but you say something else in order to take a survey. It's another thing though if their survey design is limited so as to only include binary gender, and you ARE someone who feels somewhere on the continuum and can honestly say that they're feeling male or female at the moment. If the survey is asking what sex you were assigned at birth, or what sex is on your current identification, then there is only one honest answer. In my research classes, we were taught to make sure you're asking the specific question that gets at what you want to know. Do you want data on people who were assigned male and socialized as male? Do you want data on people who are currently perceived as male most of the time? Or do you want to just put two boxes and ask a vague question like "gender" and get data on whoever clicks the "male" box. "​
     
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  9. rabbiedee MTG Elite Contributor

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    Oh my gosh!!!! I didn't know this forum existed, thank you for linking it to me!

    I'm Rabbie, I'm a new turker, but I'm Genderqueer Intersex. Genderqueer means that I don't conform to gender in any way and I try my best to actually break the stereotypes, and I don't identify as a man or a lady. Intersex means that I was born with a biological body that cannot simply be confined to the binary ideas of man and woman, and that both my primary and secondary sex characteristics don't follow either's 'natural' path. While I'm not interested in talking about my body I'd love to answer any gender-related and intersex-related questions anybody has!
     
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  10. tshirtshoodies89 New Member Member

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    thanks post & Like post very...
     

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